Interactive transcript · 202 lines
Hello, world.
你好，世界。
Welcome to TalkCast Discovery, the podcast where we step off the map and dive deep into the heart of
欢迎收听 TalkCast Discovery，这档播客将带我们走出地图的局限，深入探寻
the world's most fascinating places.
世界上最迷人的地方。
I am your host, Ethan.
我是你们的主持人，伊森。
Before we begin our journey today, I want to take a quick moment to express my deepest gratitude to
在开启今天的旅程之前，我想借此机会表达我最深切的感激之情，致以
all our TalkCast members.
我们所有的 TalkCast 会员。
Your incredible support keeps this show running and allows us to bring these cultural explorations
你们难以置信的支持维持着这个节目，并让我们能够赋予这些文化探索
to life.
以生机。
If you have not joined our membership yet, please consider doing so.
如果你还没有加入我们的会员，请考虑加入吧。
We absolutely need your support to keep discovering the world together.
我们绝对需要你的支持，以便继续共同探索这个世界。
Now, let us start today's adventure.
现在，让我们开始今天的冒险吧。
There is an ancient Chinese saying, if you want to understand the modern face of China, visit Shanghai.
中国有一句古老的俗语：如果你想了解现代中国的面貌，就去上海；
If you want to see the history of the last 1 ,000 years, visit Beijing.
如果你想看过去1000年的历史，就去北京；
But if you want to touch the very roots of Chinese civilization, you must go to Luoyang.
但如果你想触碰中国文明的根源，你必须去洛阳。
Situated in the central plains of China, Luoyang is a city where history is not just kept in museums.
坐落于中国中原地区的洛阳，是一座历史不仅保存在博物馆里的城市。
It is literally written into the soil, the rivers, and the daily lives of the people who live there.
它真真实实地书写在土壤中、河流里以及生活在那里的普通人的日常生活中。
Today, we are joined by Sarah, a brilliant historical geographer and cultural consultant who lived
今天，加入我们的是莎拉，一位杰出的历史地理学家兼文化顾问，她曾在
in Luoyang for five years to research its ancient heritage.
在洛阳生活了五年，专门研究其古老的遗产。
Sarah, welcome to the show.
莎拉，欢迎来到我们的节目。
Thank you so much for having me, Ethan.
非常感谢你邀请我，伊森。
It is an absolute pleasure to be here.
非常荣幸能来到这里。
Luoyang is a city that is very close to my heart.
洛阳是一座非常贴近我内心的城市。
When I first moved there, I thought I was just going to study old maps and dusty ruins.
当我刚搬到那里时，我以为我只是要去研究古老的地图和满是灰尘的遗址。
But I quickly realized that Luoyang is a living, breathing storybook.
但我很快意识到，洛阳是一本活生生的、有呼吸的故事书。
Every time you turn a corner, you are stepping over centuries of history.
每次转过街角，你都在跨越数个世纪的历史。
I cannot wait to share some of the magic of this ancient capital with our listeners today.
我迫不及待想在今天与我们的听众分享这座古都的一些神奇魅力。
That is a perfect way to put it, Sarah.
说得太完美了，莎拉。
A living storybook.
一本活生生的故事书。
Luoyang is often called the capital of 13 dynasties.
洛阳常被称为十三朝古都。
That's an unbelievable amount of history.
那是不可思议的悠久历史。
For our listeners who are building their vocabulary, a dynasty refers to a line of rulers from the
对于正在积累词汇量的听众来说，王朝是指来自同一个
same family.
同一个家族的统治者体系。
Sarah, could you help us understand why Luoyang was chosen as the capital by so many different
莎拉，你能帮我们理解为什么洛阳会被选为都城，
rulers over thousands of years?
并在数千年中被这么多不同的统治者所青睐吗？
What made this specific geographical location so special?
是什么让这个特殊的地理位置如此独特？
That is the ultimate geographical question, Ethan.
伊森，那是一个终极的地理问题。
In ancient times, geography was destiny.
在古代，地理即命运。
Luoyang is located in the west of Henan province, right in the basin of the Low River, which is a
洛阳位于河南省西部，正好处于伊洛河流域的盆地中，而这条河是
major tributary of the Yellow River.
黄河的一条主要支流。
If you look at a physical map, you'll see that Luoyang is surrounded by natural protective barriers.
如果你看一张地形图，你会发现洛阳被天然的防御屏障所环绕。
It has mountains to the north, south, and west, which acted like natural fortress walls.
它的北部、南部和西部都有山脉，起到了天然堡垒城墙的作用。
And to the east, it opens up to the vast, fertile central plains.
而在东部，它通向广袤肥沃的中原平原。
Ah, so it was basically a natural stronghold, safe from invaders, but also connected to rich
啊，所以它基本上是一个天然的要塞，免受入侵者的侵害，但也连接着丰富的
agricultural lands. Exactly.
农业土地。确实如此。
It was incredibly easy to defend, but also highly accessible.
它极其易守难攻，但同时也非常交通便利。
In Chinese philosophy, this area was considered the center of the earth.
在中国哲学中，这个地区被认为是天地的中心。
Because of this central location, it became the perfect hub for trade, transport, and communication.
正是因为这个中心位置，它成为了贸易、运输和交流的绝佳枢纽。
During the Sui and Tang dynasties, Luoyang was the eastern terminal of the famous Silk Road and the
在隋唐时期，洛阳是著名的丝绸之路的东端终点，同时也是
central hub of the Grand Canal.
大运河的中心枢纽。
Imagine a city bustling with merchants from Persia, monks from India, and scholars from all over Asia.
想象一下，一座熙熙攘攘的城市，汇聚了来自波斯的商人、来自印度的僧侣以及来自亚洲各地的学者。
It was a global metropolis of its time, much like New York or London today.
它是那个时代的一座全球性大都市，就像今天的纽约或伦敦一样。
That is fascinating.
那真是令人着迷。
I love visualizing that.
我非常喜欢在脑海中想象那个画面。
It must have been such a vibrant mix of cultures.
那里当时一定融汇了极其充满生机的多元文化。
And speaking of this rich history, one of the most magnificent physical legacies of that golden era
说到这段悠久的历史，那个黄金时代最壮丽的实体遗产之一
is the Longmen Grottos.
就是龙门石窟。
Grottos, for our listeners, are basically caves, but in this case, they are caves filled with
对我们的听众来说，石窟基本上就是洞穴，但在这种情况下，它们是填满着
beautiful hand -carved stone statues.
精美手工雕刻的石雕雕像。
Sarah, you have spent countless hours at the Longmen Grottos.
莎拉，你在龙门石窟度过了无数时光。
Can you paint a picture of what it's like to stand in front of those massive monuments?
你能描绘一下站在那些宏伟的遗迹前是什么感觉吗？
Oh, Ethan, standing at Longmen is a truly spiritual experience.
哦，伊桑，站 在龙门石窟前绝对是一种洗涤心灵的体验。
Picture a grand limestone cliff stretching for about one kilometer along the banks of the E River.
想象一下，一座宏伟的石灰岩悬崖沿着伊河两岸绵延约一公里。
As you walk along the riverbank, you see thousands of caves carved into the rock face.
当你沿着河岸走去，会看到山崖峭壁上雕刻着数以千计的洞穴。
Inside these caves are over 100 ,000 Buddha statues, ranging from tiny figures just a few centimeters
这些洞穴内有超过10万尊佛像，涵盖了从只有几厘米
tall to the giant Virokana Buddha, which stands at over 17 meters tall.
高的微型佛像，到高达17米以上的巨大卢舍那大佛。
Wow, 17 meters.
哇，17米。
That's as tall as a five -story building.
那相当于一座五层建筑物那么高。
What is the story behind that giant Buddha?
那尊大佛背后有什么故事呢？
It's spectacular.
这简直太壮观了。
This main Buddha is located in the Fengshen Temple Cave.
这尊主佛位于奉先寺洞内。
It was carved during the Tang Dynasty, under the patronage of Empress Wu Zitian, the only female
它开凿于唐代，是在女皇武则天的资助下完成的，她是唯一一位女性
empress in Chinese history.
中国历史上的女皇。
Legend says that the face of the Buddha was actually modeled after the Empress herself.
传说大佛的容貌实际上是以女皇本人为原型塑造的。
When you stand at the base of this giant monument and look up, you are met with this incredibly
当你站在这座宏伟雕像的基座下抬头仰望时，迎接你的是难以置信地
gentle, compassionate gaze.
温柔而慈悲的凝视。
The eyes are slightly downward -looking, so no matter where you stand, you feel as though the Buddha
佛像的双眼略微向下俯视，所以无论你站在哪里，都会感觉佛祖
is looking directly at you with deep peace.
正带着沉静与安详直接凝视着你。
It is a masterpiece of limestone carving.
它是石灰岩雕刻的杰作。
That is incredible.
那真是不可思议。
It is amazing to think about the devotion and craftsmanship that went into carving those statues
想到雕刻那些佛像所倾注的虔诚与精湛工艺，真是令人惊叹
using only hand tools.
而且仅仅使用了手工工具。
Now, you mentioned Empress Wu Zitian, which leads me to another symbol of Lu Yang that is closely
现在你提到了女皇武则天，这让我想到了洛阳另一个与其紧密相关的象征
tied to her, the peony flower.
即牡丹花。
In China, there is a very famous saying, peonies of Lu Yang are the finest under heaven.
在中国有一句名言：“洛阳牡丹甲天下”。
What is the connection between this beautiful flower, the city, and the famous empress?
这种美丽的鲜花、这座城市以及那位名女皇之间有什么联系呢？
This is one of my favorite legends.
这是我最喜欢的传说之一。
According to the story, during a cold winter in the capital city of Chang 'an, Empress Wu Zitian got
根据故事记载，在国都长安一个寒冷的冬天，女皇武则天
drunk and wrote a poem ordering all the flowers in the imperial gardens to bloom the next morning.
喝醉了酒，写 下一首诗，命令皇家花园里的所有鲜花必须在次日早晨开放。
Now, because she was a powerful ruler, all the flowers were terrified of her and bloomed overnight,
因为她是一位强权统治者，所有的花都对她感到恐惧，连夜盛开，
despite the freezing winter.
尽管当时正值严寒的冬日。
All except one, the stubborn peony.
除了唯独一种，那就是倔强的牡丹。
The peony refused to disobey the laws of nature.
牡丹拒绝违抗自然规律。
Oh, I love a rebellious flower.
哦，我喜欢这种具有叛逆精神的花。
What did the empress do?
女皇做了什么？
She was absolutely furious.
她感到绝对的暴怒。
As punishment, she ordered all the peonies to be dug up and banished to Lu Yang.
作为惩罚，她下令将所有牡丹拔出并贬黜到洛阳。
She also ordered them to be burned.
她还下令将 它们焚烧。
But instead of dying, when the burned peonies arrived in the fertile soil of Lu Yang, they bloomed
但被烧过的牡丹非但没有死去，当它们来到洛阳肥沃的土壤中时，反而开花了
even more beautifully, with deep red colors that looked like fire.
开得更加绚丽，带着如火焰般深浓的红色。
Since then, Lu Yang became the spiritual home of the peony.
从那时起，洛阳成为了牡丹的精神家园。
Today, every spring and April, the entire city is covered in a sea of pink, red, and white peony blossoms.
如今，每到阳春四月，整个城市都沉浸在粉色、红色和白色的牡丹花海之中。
It is a magnificent sight that attracts millions of visitors.
这是一幅壮观的景象，吸引了数以百万计的游客。
That is such a beautiful story.
那真是个 美丽的故事。
It shows the resilient character of both the flower and the city.
这展现了花与这座城市坚韧的品格。
And speaking of spring, all this talk of history and beautiful sights is making me quite hungry.
说到春天，聊了这么多历史和美丽的风光，让我感到相当饿了。
Let's talk about food.
让我们来聊聊美食吧。
Lu Yang has a very famous and highly unique culinary tradition called the Lu Yang Water Banquet, or
洛阳有一种非常有名且高度独特的烹饪传统，被称为洛阳水席，或者
shui si.
水席。
Sarah, when I first heard the term water banquet, I imagined eating while floating in a pool.
莎拉，当我第一次听到“水席”这个词时，我想象着边在泳池里漂浮边吃东西。
But I assume that is not quite correct, is it?
但我推测那不太准确，对吧？
No, Ethan, you do not need to bring your swimsuit.
不，伊森，你不需要带泳衣。
But it is definitely a watery experience in a different way.
但这绝对是一种别具一格的水润体验。
The Water Banquet is one of the oldest surviving banquets in China, dating back over 1 ,000 years to
水席是中国现存最古老的宴席之一，可以追溯到1000多年前的
the Tang Dynasty.
唐朝。
It is called a water banquet for two main reasons.
它被称为水席有两个主要原因。
First, almost every single dish in this 24 -course meal has a soup or a gravy base.
首先，在这道由24道菜组成的宴席中，几乎每一道菜都以汤或酱汁为底。
Second, the dishes are served one after another, flowing continuously like a running stream of water.
其次，一道道菜接连上桌，像奔流的溪水一样源源不断地行云流水。
24 courses?
24道菜？
That is a massive feast.
那真是一场盛大的盛宴。
Why so many soups?
为什么有这么多的汤呢？
Well, it actually has to do with Lu Yang's geography and climate.
嗯，这实际上与洛阳的地理和气候有关。
Lu Yang is located in a dry, mountainous northern region.
洛阳位于干旱、多山的北部地区。
During winter, the weather is cold and very dry.
在冬季，天气寒冷而且非常干燥。
To combat this dry climate, the ancient people of Lu Yang developed a love for hot, steaming soups
为了抵御这种干燥的气候，古代洛阳人养成了喜爱热气腾腾的汤的习惯
to keep their bodies hydrated and warm.
以保持身体水润和温暖。
The most famous dish in the banquet is called Lu Yang Yangsai, or the peony swallow dish.
水席中最著名的菜肴叫做洛阳燕菜，也就是牡丹燕菜。
Peony swallow dish?
牡丹燕菜？
That sounds very poetic.
那听起来非常富有诗意。
What is actually in it?
里面究竟有什么？
It is beautiful to look at.
它看起来非常美。
The main ingredient is actually humble white radish.
主要的食材其实是普通的白萝卜。
The chefs shred the radish so thinly that it looks like swallow's nest, which was a highly expensive
厨师们把萝卜切成丝，以至于看起来像燕窝，这曾是非常昂贵的
imperial delicacy.
宫廷佳肴。
The shredded radish is steamed and served in a rich, savory, and slightly sour and peppery broth.
切丝的萝卜蒸熟后，浸在浓郁、咸香、微酸带辣的汤汁中。
On top, the chefs arrange a beautiful yellow flower made of egg pastry designed to look exactly like
在顶部，厨师们摆放一朵用蛋 皮做成的美丽黄花，设计得看起来恰好
a blooming peony floating on water.
一朵浮在水面上的盛开的牡丹。
When you take a bite, it is a burst of contrasting textures.
当你咬上一口，那是对比鲜明的口感爆发。
The crunchiness of the radish, the soft egg pastry, and the spicy, warming soup.
萝卜的脆爽，柔嫩的蛋皮，以及辛辣暖胃的汤。
It is comfort food at an imperial level.
这是宫廷级别的治愈美食。
Oh my goodness, that sounds absolutely delicious.
天哪，那听起来绝对非常美味。
I love how they turn a simple radish into a piece of art.
我喜欢他们把一个普通的萝卜变成一件艺术品的方式。
But I understand that Lu Yang's soup culture goes beyond fancy banquets.
但我了解到洛阳的汤文化超越了高档的宴席。
What about the street food?
街头小吃怎么样？
What do locals eat on a regular Tuesday morning?
当地人在一个寻常的星期二早上吃什么？
Ah, if you want to eat like a true local in Lu Yang, you must join the morning soup culture.
啊，如果你想像真正的洛阳当地人一样进食，你必须加入早汤文化。
Every morning, the old streets of Lu Yang are filled with the rich aroma of boiling bones and spices.
每天清晨，洛阳的老街上都飘满熬煮骨头和香料的浓郁香气。
The locals love their beef soup, mutton soup, and especially donkey meat soup.
当地人喜爱他们的牛肉汤、羊肉汤，特别是驴肉汤。
You walk into a busy, noisy little shop, and you see huge, steaming metal cauldrons of soup.
你走进一家热闹嘈杂的小店，会看到一口口热气腾腾的巨大金属大锅汤。
You order a bowl, and the cook ladles the hot broth over thin slices of meat, fresh scallions, and cilantro.
你点了一碗，厨师就把热汤舀在薄肉片、新鲜的青葱和香菜上。
Then you get a crispy flatbread called saubing, tear it into pieces, and dip it into the hot soup.
然后你拿到一种叫做烧饼的酥脆面饼，把它撕成碎块，浸入热汤中。
It is the ultimate breakfast of champions.
这是冠军们的终极早餐。
It is loud, sweaty, and incredibly satisfying.
这里热闹、充满汗水，并且令人无比满足。
That sounds like heaven.
那听起来简直就像天堂。
I can almost smell the green onions and spices through your description.
透过你的描述，我几乎能闻到青葱和香料的味道。
It really sounds like a sensory paradise.
那听起来真像是一个感官的天堂。
Now, Sarah, we have talked about the ancient history, the stone carvings, and the traditional food.
好了，莎拉，我们谈论了古老的历史、石雕以及传统美食。
But Lu Yang is also a modern city.
但洛阳也是一座现代的城市。
How has this ancient heritage integrated into modern life?
这项古老的遗产是如何融合进现代生活的？
I heard that there is a massive trend happening in Lu Yang right now involving traditional clothing.
我听说洛阳现在掀起了一股涉及传统服饰的巨大风潮。
Oh, yes.
噢，是的。
The Hanfu trend in Lu Yang is absolutely mind -blowing.
洛阳的汉服热潮绝对令人叹为观止。
Hanfu is the traditional historical clothing of the Han Chinese.
汉服是汉族的传统历史服饰。
In many cities, you might occasionally see a few people wearing it for a photo shoot.
在许多城市，你可能只是偶尔看到几个人穿汉服拍照。
But in Lu Yang, it has become a daily lifestyle phenomenon.
但在洛阳，它已经成为一种日常生活的现象。
If you visit Lu Yang today, especially in the evening around the ancient city gates like Li Jingmen
如果你今天来到洛阳，特别是在傍晚时分游览像丽景门这样的古城门附近
or the Sui Tong Dynasty park sites, you will see thousands of young people walking around in full
或是隋唐遗址公园，你会看到成千上万的年轻人身着完整的
historical robes. Really?
历史长袍。真的吗？
Thousands of people?
成千上万的人？
Like a massive costume party?
就像一场大型的变装派对？
It is like stepping into a time machine.
这就像踏入了时光机。
You see girls with elaborate ancient hairstyles, beautiful hairpins, and flowing silk robes holding
你会看到有着精致古代发型、漂亮发簪和飘逸丝袍的女孩们手持
traditional paper lanterns.
传统的纸灯笼。
You see young men dressed as ancient warriors or scholars.
你会看到打扮成古代战士或文人墨客的年轻男子。
They're not just posing for professional cameras.
他们不 仅是在为专业镜头摆姿势。
They're hanging out with friends, eating street food, and riding the subway.
他们正和朋友聚会、吃路边摊，还乘坐着地铁。
The city has embraced this trend completely.
这座城市已经完全接纳了这股热潮。
Many historic sites even offer free entry or special discounts if you are wearing Hanfu.
如果你穿汉服，许多历史遗迹甚至提供免费入场或特别折扣。
That is a brilliant way to keep history alive and engage the younger generation.
那真是个绝妙的方法，既能保持历史活力，又能吸引年轻一代。
It makes the city feel like a living museum, where the boundaries between the past and the present
这让城市感觉就像一个活生生的博物馆，过去与现在之间的界限
are completely blurred. Exactly.
变得完全模糊。确实如此。
It is a beautiful way of celebrating cultural identity.
这是庆祝文化身份的一种美妙方式。
In Lu Yang, history is not a heavy, dusty burden of the past.
在洛阳，历史并非过去沉重、陈旧的负担。
It is something fun, beautiful, and fashionable that you can wear and share with others.
它是一种有趣、美丽且时尚的事物，你可以穿在身上并与他人分享。
I love that.
我喜欢这一点。
It shows that culture is not static.
这表明文化并不是静态的。
It evolves and finds new ways to connect with people today.
它在演进，并寻找与当代人相连的新方式。
Sarah, our conversation has been absolutely delightful, but we are slowly reaching the end of our
莎拉，我们的交谈绝对非常愉快，但我们正在慢慢接近我们
journey today.
今天的旅程。
Thank you so much for sharing your incredible insights and passion for Lu Yang with us.
非常感谢你与我们分享对洛阳不可思议的真知灼见与热情。
Thank you, Ethan.
谢谢你，伊森。
It was an absolute joy.
这真是绝对的快乐。
I hope our conversation inspires some of our listeners to pack their bags and explore the ancient
我希望我们的对话能启发一些听众收拾行囊去探索古老的
streets of Lu Yang for themselves.
洛阳街头自己体验。
There is so much more to discover.
还有太多值得去发现。
I am sure it will.
我确定会的。
Thank you so much for sharing.
非常感谢你的分享。
Thank you.
谢谢你。
Thank you.
谢谢你。
Thank you.
谢谢你。
Thank you.
谢谢你。
Thank you .PRhtimant .com Thank you. Iawatts.
谢谢您。PRhtimant.com 谢谢您。Iawatts。
from Talkcast Discovery, signing off.
来自 Talkcast Discovery，本次播音结束。
