Interactive transcript · 226 lines
Hello, everyone.
大家好。
Welcome to another episode of TalkCast Discovery, off the map, into the world.
欢迎收听 TalkCast Discovery 的又一集节目，离开地图的标记，走向大千世界。
I am your host, Emily.
我是你们的主持人艾米莉。
Before we begin today's incredible journey, I want to say a massive, heartfelt thank you to all our
在我们开始今天不可思议的旅程之前，我想向我们所有的成员表达最真挚、最衷心的感谢
TalkCast members.
TalkCast 的成员们。
Your support keeps this show running, and it allows us to dive deep into the cultural heart of the
您的支持让本节目得以持续运营，也让我们能够深入探索其文化核心
world's most fascinating places.
世界上最迷人的地方。
If you haven't joined our membership yet, please consider doing so.
如果您尚未加入我们的会员，请考虑加入。
We truly need your support to keep bringing these stories to life.
我们确实需要您的支持，以继续将这些故事呈现给大家。
Now, let us close our eyes for a moment.
现在，让我们闭上眼睛静心片刻。
Imagine a place where steep, mist -covered mountains cradle a lush, green basin.
想象这样一个地方：陡峭而云雾缭绕的群山环抱着一片郁郁葱葱的绿色盆地。
Imagine the sound of boiling chili oil sizzling in a giant iron pot, the gentle click -clack of
想象一下大铁锅里沸腾的辣椒油发出嗞嗞声，以及
bamboo mahjong tiles, and the sweet aroma of jasmine tea drifting from a historic wooden teahouse.
竹制麻将牌轻柔的碰撞声，还有从古色古香的木质茶馆中飘出的茉莉花茶的甜美香气。
Today, we are traveling to southwest China, to a province known as the Land of Abundance, Sichuan.
今天，我们将前往中国西南，前往一个被称为“丰饶之陆”（天府之国）的省份——四川。
And to help us uncover the soul of this magical place, I am joined by Benjamin, a culinary historian
为了帮助我们揭开这个神奇之地的灵魂，我们邀请到了本杰明，他是一位烹饪历史学家
and travel writer who lived in Sichuan's capital, Chengdu, for six wonderful years.
和旅行作家，他曾在四川的省会成都度过了六年美好的时光。
Welcome to the show, Benjamin.
欢迎来到我们的节目，本杰明。
Thank you so much, Emily.
非常感谢你， 艾米莉。
It is absolutely wonderful to be here.
能来到这里绝对是太棒了。
You know, just hearing your introduction brought back a flood of memories.
你知道，光是听到你的介绍就引发了如潮水般涌现的回忆。
I can almost smell the Sichuan peppercorns in the air.
我几乎能闻到空气中四川花椒的味道。
Sichuan is not just a place on a map for me.
对我来说，四川不仅仅是地图上的一个地方。
It is a second home.
它是我的第二故乡。
It is a place that completely reshaped how I view food, community, and the art of slow living.
这个地方彻底重塑了我对美食、社区和慢生活艺术的看法。
I can't wait to share its stories with our listeners today.
我迫不及待地想在今天与我们的听众分享它的故事。
That is exactly what we want to dive into.
那正是我们想要深入探讨的内容。
Let's start with that beautiful nickname, the Land of Abundance, or Tianfu Zhigua in Chinese.
让我们从那个美丽的绰号——“天府之国”开始吧。
Historically, Sichuan was actually very isolated.
在历史上，四川实际上非常孤立隔绝。
It's surrounded by high mountains, which made travel extremely difficult.
它被高山包围，这使得出行极其困难。
The famous ancient poet Li Bai even wrote that the road to Sichuan is harder than climbing to heaven.
著名的古代诗人李白甚至写道：“蜀道难，难于上青天。”
So Benjamin, how did this isolated basin become such a prosperous, self -sufficient paradise?
那么本杰明，这个封闭的盆地是如何变成这样一个繁荣且自给自足的乐土的呢？
That is a brilliant starting point, Emily.
这是一个精彩的切入点，艾米莉。
Yes, geographically, Sichuan is a giant basin.
是的，从地理上来说，四川是一个巨大的盆地。
In the past, those mountains acted like giant walls, protecting it from wars and invasions.
在过去，那些高山就像巨大的城墙，保护它免受战争和入侵。
But the real key to its abundance lies in water.
但它如此丰饶的真正关键在于水。
For thousands of years, the Chengdu Plain suffered from seasonal flooding from the Min River,
千百年来，成都平原一直遭受岷江季节性洪水的困扰，
followed by severe droughts.
随后又是严重的干旱。
But everything changed in the year 256 BC, over 2 ,000 years ago.
但在公元前256年，也就是2000多年前，一切都改变了。
Oh, wait, you were talking about the famous Du Zhang Yan irrigation system, right?
哦，等等，你指的是著名的都江堰灌溉工程，对吧？
Yes, exactly.
是的，确实如此。
Du Zhang Yan is the unsung hero of Sichuan.
都江堰是四川无名的英雄。
A local official named Li Bing and his Sun designed a system that didn't use a dam.
一位名叫李冰的地方官员和他的儿子设计了一个没有使用大坝的系统。
Instead, they used a fish mouth -shaped dike to split the river into an inner and outer channel.
相反，他们利用鱼嘴状的堤坝将河流分为内江和外江两道渠。
This naturally controlled the water flow, preventing floods and providing perfect irrigation for farming.
这自然地控制了水流，防止了洪水，并为农业提供了完美的灌溉。
It was a masterpiece of ecological engineering.
这是生态工程的杰作。
Because of Du Zhang Yan, the soil became incredibly fertile.
由于都江堰，这里的土壤变得极其肥沃。
Agriculture boomed, and the people of Sichuan suddenly found themselves with a surplus of food and resources.
农业蓬勃发展，四川人民突然发现自己拥有了剩余的粮食和资源。
This created a culture of security and ease that still defines the region today.
这创造了一种安全与悠闲的文化，至今仍在定义着这个地区。
That is mind -blowing.
那真是令人惊叹。
A system built over 2 ,000 years ago is still working perfectly today, watering millions of hectares
一个建造于2000多年前的系统至今仍在完美运转，灌溉着数百万公顷的农田
of land.
的土地。
It makes sense why the local lifestyle is so unique.
这就解释了为什么当地的生活方式如此独特。
When survival is guaranteed by nature, people have more time to enjoy life, right?
当自然保障了基本生存，人们就有更多时间去享受生活，对吧？
And that brings us to the famous Sichuan lifestyle.
这也引出了著名的四川生活方式。
I hear there's a specific word they use to describe this feeling of ultimate comfort.
我听说他们用一个特定的词来形容这种极致舒适的感觉。
Ah, you must mean boshy.
啊，你一定是指“巴适”。
In the Sichuan dialect, if something is boshy, it means it is absolutely comfortable, satisfying,
在四川方言里，如果一件事物很“巴适”，就意味着它绝对让人舒服、满意，
and perfect.
而且完美。
And the ultimate expression of boshy can be found in a traditional teahouse.
而“巴适”的极致体现可以在传统茶馆中找到。
In Chengdu, teahouses are the living rooms of the city.
在成 都，茶馆就是这座城市的客厅。
You don't just go there to drink tea.
你不仅仅是去那里喝茶。
You go there to live.
你是去那里生活。
I love that image, the living rooms of the city.
我喜欢这个意象，城市的客厅。
Paint a picture for us, Benjamin.
本杰明，给我们描绘一下那个画面吧。
What does an afternoon in a traditional Sichuan teahouse actually feel like?
在四川传统茶馆度过一个下午究竟是什么感觉？
What do you see and hear?
你能看到和听到什么？
Imagine walking into the Hemming teahouse inside People's Park.
想象一下走进人民公园里的鹤鸣茶社。
It's outdoors, set right next to a quiet lake under the shade of massive weeping willows.
茶社设在室外，就在一片安静的湖畔，处于巨大的垂柳树荫之下。
The first thing you hear is a symphony of sounds.
你首先听到的是各种声音汇聚成的交响乐。
The low, warm hum of hundreds of people chatting, the clank of copper kettles, and the unique creak
数百人聊天时低沉温暖的嗡嗡声，铜壶的叮当声，以及独特的吱吱声
of low bamboo chairs.
来自于低矮竹椅。
You sit down in one of those low chairs and your body instantly relaxes.
你坐在其中一把矮椅子上，身体瞬间放松下来。
You order a cup of Xiangpian, green tea scented with jasmine blossoms, served in a traditional
你点一杯香片，这是一种带有茉莉花香味的绿茶，用传统的
gaiwan, which is a three -piece tea vessel with a saucer, a bowl, and a lid.
盖碗盛装，这是一种三件套茶器具，包含茶托、茶碗和茶盖。
Oh, I've seen those.
哦，我见过那种。
But I must admit, using a gaiwan can be a bit tricky for beginners.
但我必须承认，对于新手来说，使用盖碗可能会有一点难办。
Is there a proper way to use it?
使用它有正确的方法吗？
There absolutely is.
绝对是有的。
You hold the saucer with your left hand and use the lid with your right hand to gently scrape the
你用左手托住茶托，右手拿盖子轻轻刮动
surface of the hot water.
热水的水面。
This does two things.
这样做有两个作用。
It stirs the tea leaves to release the flavor and it pushes the leaves away so you don't swallow
它能搅拌茶叶以释放香味，并将茶叶推开，这样你在喝的时候就不会吞下
them when you sip.
它们，当你小口喝的时候。
You leave a tiny gap between the lid and the bowl to drink.
你在盖子和碗之间留出一条极小的缝隙来喝茶。
It is a beautiful, slow, rhythmic motion.
这是一个优美、缓慢且有节奏的动作。
And while you sip, you might see an ear cleaner walking around.
当你喝茶时，你可能会看到采耳师在四周走动。
They carry long, thin metal tools that make a high -pitched ting -ting sound as they walk.
他们拿着细长的金属工具，走动时发出尖锐的叮叮声。
They offer professional ear cleaning right there in your chair.
他们就在你的椅子旁提供专业的采耳服务。
Wait, you're cleaning in a public tea house?
等等，在公共茶馆里采耳？
That sounds incredibly unusual.
那听起来极其不寻常。
Did you ever try it?
你曾经尝试过吗？
I did.
我试过。
I was terrified at first.
起初我感到很害怕。
But it is actually a highly skilled traditional art.
但它实际上是一门技术高超的传统技艺。
They use goose feathers and tiny metal tuning forks.
他们使用鹅羽毛和微型的金属音叉。
When they vibrate the fork inside your ear, it creates this deep, tingling, relaxing sensation.
当他们在你耳朵里震动音叉时，会产生一种深层的、酥麻放松的感觉。
It sounds crazy, but it is pure bliss.
听起来很疯狂，但那纯粹是一种享受。
It is the definition of Ba -xi.
这就是‘巴适’的定义。
Wow, that sounds like ultimate sensory relaxation.
哇，听起来像是终极的感官放松。
But speaking of senses, we cannot talk about Sichuan without talking about its food.
不过说到感官，谈论四川就不能不谈它的美食。
Sichuan cuisine is famous worldwide, but many people think it is just about burning hot chili peppers.
四川菜系闻名遐迩，但许多人以为它仅仅是关于炙热的辣椒。
Is that true, or is there more to the story?
事实真是如此吗，还是另有内情？
Oh, that is the biggest misconception about Sichuan food.
噢，那是对川菜最大的误解。
There is a famous saying in Chinese, Yi Cai Yi Ge, Bai Cai Bai Wei, which means one dish, one style,
中文里有一句著名的俗语，“一菜一格，百菜百味”，意思是每一道菜有一种风格，
a hundred dishes, a hundred flavors.
百道菜有百种风味。
While chili is important, classical Sichuan cuisine actually lists 24 distinct flavor profiles.
虽然辣椒很重要，但传统川菜实际上列出了24种独特的味型。
Yes, 24.
是的，24种 。
You have sweet and sour, garlic paste, strange flavor, which is a mix of salty, sweet, sour, hot,
有酸甜、蒜泥、怪味——也就是咸、甜、酸、辣的混合，
and nutty.
以及坚果香。
And of course, the famous Ma La, or numbing and spicy flavor.
当然，还有著名的“麻辣”，也就是麻与辣的风味。
Ah, Ma La.
啊，麻辣。
The La is the heat from chili peppers, which was actually brought to China through trade only a few
“辣”是指来自辣椒的辣味，它实际上仅仅通过贸易在几
centuries ago.
个世纪前传入中国。
But what about the Ma?
但是“麻”又如何呢？
That numbing sensation is so unique to Sichuan.
那种麻木的感觉对四川来说是如此独特。
Yes, the Ma comes from the Sichuan peppercorn, or Hua Zhao.
是的，“麻”来自于四川花椒，也就是“花椒”。
It is not actually a pepper at all.
它实际上根本不是某种辣椒。
It is the dried husk of a citrus fruit.
它是柑橘类水果干燥后的果壳。
When you bite into one, it doesn't taste hot.
当你咬开一颗时，尝起来并不辣。
Instead, it causes this strange electric tingling sensation on your lips and tongue.
相反，它会在你的嘴唇和舌头上引起这种奇特的如电流般的麻刺感。
Scientifically, it contains a compound that makes your sensory nerves vibrate at about 50 hertz.
从科学角度来看，它包含一种能让你的感觉神经以大约50赫兹频率震动的化合物。
It literally tricks your brain into thinking your mouth is vibrating.
它简直是在欺骗你的大脑，让你以为嘴巴在震动。
It's like carbonated water, but much more intense.
这就像起泡水，但要剧烈得多。
A 50 hertz vibration on the tongue?
舌头上50赫兹的震动？
That is wild.
那太疯狂了。
So when you combine that numbing Ma with the spicy La, what happens?
所以当你把那种麻感与辣味结合在一起时，会发生什么？
It is magic, Emily.
这太神奇了，艾米莉。
The Ma numbs your tongue slightly, which actually protects it from being completely burned by the chili.
“麻”会轻微麻痹你的舌头，这实际上保护了舌头不被辣椒完全灼伤。
This allows you to taste all the other delicate flavors in the dish.
这让你能够品尝到菜肴中所有其他微妙的风味。
The garlic, the ginger, the scallions, the fermented bean paste.
大蒜、生姜、青葱，还有发酵的豆瓣酱。
Think of a boiling Sichuan hotpot.
设想一下沸腾的四川火锅。
It's a deep crimson sea of beef tallow, bubbling with hundreds of Sichuan peppercorns, dried red
那是一片深红色的牛油之海，冒着泡，里面有数百粒四川花椒和干红
chilies, star anise, and cinnamon.
辣椒、八角和肉桂。
You dip thin slices of beef, fresh lotus root, and bamboo shoots into this broth.
你将薄牛肉片、鲜莲藕和竹笋涮入这锅汤底中。
It is intense.
味道非常浓烈。
It is aromatic.
香气扑鼻。
And yes, your face will sweat.
是的，你也会满头大汗。
But you just cannot stop eating, because the flavors are so deep and complex.
但你就是停不下来，因为那些风味是如此深邃而丰富。
Oh, Benjamin, you are making me so hungry.
噢，本杰明，你说的我都饿了。
I can literally hear the bubbling of the hotpot and smell that rich, spicy steam.
我简直能听到火锅咕嘟咕嘟的声音，闻到那浓郁辛辣的蒸汽。
It sounds like an active, social, and deeply emotional way of dining.
这听起来是一种活跃、社交且充满情感的用餐方式。
Everyone gathers around one single pot, sharing the same heat. Exactly.
大家聚集在一个锅旁，分享着同一份热气。一点没错。
Hotpot is the ultimate community food.
火锅是极致的社群美食。
In Sichuan, eating is never just about filling your stomach.
在四川，吃饭绝不仅是为了填饱肚皮。
It's about connection.
它关乎人与人之间的连接。
You sit close to your friends, you share stories, you laugh, and you sweat together.
你紧挨着朋友坐下，分享故事，畅笑、同汗。
It breaks down all social barriers.
它打破了所有的社交壁垒。
That is beautiful.
那真是太美好了。
Now let's move from the art of the kitchen to the art of the stage.
现在让我们从厨房的艺术转移到舞台的艺术。
Sichuan has a rich theatrical history, most famously represented by Sichuan Opera, or Chuanjoo.
四川拥有丰富的戏剧历史，其中最著名的代表就是川剧。
And within Chuanjoo Opera, there is one performance that leaves audiences absolutely breathless,
而在川剧表演中，有一项演出能让观众绝绝对对地为之屏息，
Bianlien, or Face Changing.
即“变脸”，也就是变脸艺术。
Can you tell us about this magical art?
你能给我们讲讲这项神奇的艺术吗？
Oh, Bianlien is spectacular.
哦，变脸简直精彩绝伦。
I remember the first time I saw it in a small theater in Jinli Ancient Street.
我还记得第一次在锦里古街的一家小剧场里看到它。
A performer dressed in a magnificent, colorful ancient warrior costume walked onto the stage.
一位身着华丽彩衣的古代武士装束的表演者走上了舞台。
He wore a brightly painted silk mask.
他戴着一副色彩鲜艳的彩绘丝绸面具。
He waved his arms, spun around, and in a fraction of a second, faster than a human eye can blink,
他挥舞双臂，旋转身姿，就在一刹那之间，快到比人的眨眼速度还要快，
his mask changed from bright red to deep green, then to black, then to gold, and finally to his own
他的面具从大红变成墨绿，再变成黑色，接着变成金色，最终变成了他自己的
bare face.
真面孔。
The audience went wild.
全场观众都为之狂热。
That sounds like real magic.
这听起来就像真正的魔法。
How do they do it?
他们究竟是如何做到的？
Is it a closely guarded secret?
这是一个被严密守护的秘密吗？
It is one of the most highly guarded cultural secrets in China.
它是中国保密级别极高的文化秘密之一。
In the past, the technique was only passed down within families, from father to son.
在过去，这项技艺只在家族内部传承，传男不传女。
Today, the rules are a bit more relaxed, but the mechanism is still a secret.
如今，规则稍微宽泛了一些，但其中的机关依然是个秘密。
What we do know is that the masks are made of very thin silk, painted with dramatic expressions that
我们所知道的是，面具是由极薄的丝绸制成的，上面印画着戏剧化的表情，
represent the character's changing emotions—fear, anger, joy, sadness.
代表着角色变化的情感——恐惧、愤怒、喜悦、悲伤。
The performer uses hidden threads and extremely precise movements of the head, hands, and shoulders
表演者利用隐蔽的细线以及头部、手部和肩膀极度精准的动作
to pull the masks away.
来扯下面具。
It requires years of intense physical training.
这需要经过多年高强度的体能训练。
That is fascinating.
这真是令人着迷。
It is not just a trick.
这不仅是一门技巧。
It's a physical expression of a character's inner psychological struggle.
它是角色内在心理挣扎的外在肢体表达。
Now, Benjamin, you lived in Sichuan for six years.
那么，本杰明，你在四川生活了六年。
While these ancient traditions, like tea, hot pot, and opera, are still very alive, Sichuan,
虽然这些古老的传统，比如茶文化、火锅和川剧，依然非常有活力，但四川，
especially Chengdu, has also become incredibly modern.
特别是成都，也变得极其现代化。
How do you see the ancient and the modern blending together there today?
你如何看待如今那里古老与现代的融合？
This is actually my favorite thing about modern Sichuan.
这实际上是我最喜欢现代四川的一点。
It has managed to become a global, high -tech hub and a capital of youth culture without losing its
它成功地成为了全球高科技中心和青年文化之都，同时又没有失去它的
historic soul.
历史的灵魂。
In Chengdu, you can visit a futuristic shopping mall made of steel and glass, and right next to it
在成都，你可以逛一座由钢铁和玻璃建造的未来感购物中心，而在它隔壁
you will find an ancient Buddhist temple like Dasidien, where elderly people are sitting in the
你会发现一座像大慈寺那样的古老佛教寺院，老人们正坐在
courtyard, playing mahjong and drinking tea.
院子里打麻将、喝茶。
You see young fashion designers wearing futuristic clothes, but they are eating five -dollar street
你能看到年轻的时装设计师穿着充满科幻感的服装，却在街头吃着5美元的
noodles on tiny plastic stools next to a historic brick wall.
面条，坐在古老砖墙旁的小塑料凳子上。
The city has this beautiful, relaxed confidence.
这座城市有着这种美丽而从容的自信。
It doesn't rush to destroy its past to embrace the future.
它并不急于毁灭过去去拥抱未来。
That is a very rare and precious balance.
那是一种非常罕见而珍贵的平衡。
It sounds like the ancient wisdom of Du Jingying, working with nature rather than trying to destroy
这听起来就像都江堰的古老智慧，顺应自然而不是试图破坏
it, still influences how Sichuan people live their modern lives today.
自然，至今仍在影响着四川人当下的现代生活方式。
I think you hit the nail on the head, Emily.
我觉得你说到点子上了，艾米莉。
It is all about harmony.
这一切都关乎和谐。
Harmony with nature, harmony with food, and harmony with each other.
与自然和谐相处，与食物和谐相处，以及彼此之间和谐相处。
That is the true spirit of Sichuan.
这才是四川真正的精神。
What a beautiful note to end on.
多么完美的总结感言。
Benjamin, thank you so much for joining us today and for sharing your wonderful memories and deep
本杰明，非常感谢你今天加入我们，并分享你美好的回忆和深刻的
insights into Sichuan's culture.
对四川文化的见解。
You have truly brought the land of abundance to life for us today.
今天你真的为我们生动地展示了这片丰饶之地。
It was my absolute pleasure, Emily.
这是我绝对的荣幸，艾米莉。
Thank you for having me, and I hope all our listeners get to experience the magic of Sichuan for
感谢邀请我，也希望我们所有的听众都能去体验四川的魅力，
themselves one day.
能在某天亲身感受。
And to our wonderful listeners, now it is your turn.
对于我们优秀的听众们，现在轮到你们了。
Based on our conversation today, we have a fun question for you.
根据我们今天的对话，我们有一个有趣的问题想问问大家。
If you could spend a lazy afternoon in a traditional Chengdu tea house, which local activity would
如果你可以在成都传统的茶馆里度过一个悠闲的下午，哪种当地的活动会
you be most excited to try?
让你最兴奋地想要尝试？
Drinking jasmine tea from a gaiwan?
是用盖碗喝茉莉花茶？
Playing a game of mahjong with the locals?
还是和当地人打一局麻将？
Or getting a traditional ear cleaning?
亦或是体验一次传统的采耳？
Please write down your answer in the comments section below.
请在下方的评论区写下你 的答案。
Or check out what other listeners are saying.
或者查看其他听众都在说些什么。
If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe to Talkcast Discovery.
如果你喜欢本期节目，请订阅 Talkcast Discovery。
Leave us a positive review, and share this podcast with your friends who are learning English or who
给我们留下好评，并将本播客分享给正在学习英语或
love travel.
热爱旅行的朋友。
Your feedback and support mean the world to us.
您的反馈和支持对我们至关重要。
Don't forget that the full English transcript and audio for this episode, along with our past
别忘了本期节目的完整英文逐字稿和音频，以及我们往期的
series, are published regularly on our website at www .talkcast .top.
系列，都会定期发布在我们的网站 www.talkcast.top 上。
Please head over there to check them out.
请前往那里查看。
Lastly, we want to hear from you.
最后，我们想听到你的声音。
Please leave a comment telling us which city, country, or cultural topic you would like us to
请留言告诉我们你希望我们对哪个城市、国家或文化主题
explore in our next episode.
在我们的下一期节目中进行探索。
I will read through your suggestions and choose our next destination based on your votes.
我会仔细阅读大家的建议，并根据大家的投票选择我们的下一个目的地。
Until next time, keep exploring, keep learning, and keep discovering.
下期见，保持探索，保持学习，保持发现。
I am Emily, and this is Talkcast Discovery.
我是艾米莉，这里是 Talkcast 探索频道。
Goodbye, everyone.
再见，大家。
