Interactive transcript · 169 lines
Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of TalkCast, your weekly space for thoughtful
大家好，欢迎收看 TalkCast 的又一期节目，这是你们每周的
conversations on science, everyday life, and modern culture.
关于科学、日常生活和现代文化的对话。
I'm your host, Chloe.
我是你们的主持人，克洛伊。
If you have ever suffered from a sleepless night, chances are someone has told you to close your
如果你曾经历过一个失眠的夜晚，很可能有人告诉过你闭上
eyes and count sheep.
双眼并数绵羊。
One sheep, two sheep, three sheep, jumping over a little wooden fence.
一只绵羊，两只绵羊，三只绵羊，跳过一个小木栅栏。
But did it actually work?
但它真的管用吗？
For millions of people, the answer is a resounding no.
对于数百万人来说，答案是响亮的否定。
In fact, a popular discussion recently lit up social media when a leading psychologist pointed out
事实上，最近社交媒体上掀起了一场热门讨论，当时一位知名心理学家指出
that counting sheep is actually a cultural and linguistic translation accident for non -English speakers.
数绵羊对于非英语母语者来说，实际上是一个文化和语言学上的翻译意外。
Even more surprising, clinical science suggests it might not work very well for anyone at all.
更令人惊讶的是，临床科学表明它可能对任何人都没有什么好效果。
It is such a pleasure to be here with you, Chloe, and you are completely right.
非常荣幸能与你在此交流，克洛伊，你完全说对了。
The idea of counting sheep is one of the most widespread bedtime myths in modern history, and
数绵羊的想法是现代历史上最广泛传播的睡前神话之一，并且
dissecting why it fails gives us a fascinating look into how our brains actually fall asleep.
剖析它为什么失败，让我们迷人地窥见我们的大脑是如何真正入睡的。
We are thrilled to have you, Dr.
我们非常高兴能邀请到您，博士。
Lucas Miller.
卢卡斯·米勒。
Lucas is a cognitive neuroscientist who specializes in sleep architecture and linguistic cognition.
卢卡斯是一位认知神经科学家，专门研究睡眠结构和语言认知。
Lucas, let us start with this viral idea of a translation accident.
卢卡斯，让我们从这个关于翻译意外的走红的观点开始吧。
Why do English speakers associate sheep with sleep in the first place?
为什么英语使用者一开始会把绵羊和睡眠联系起来？
Well, the tradition has a couple of different roots.
嗯，这个传统有几个不同的根源。
Historically, there is an old folklore idea that shepherds could not sleep until they counted every
历史上，有一个古老的民间传说认为牧羊人无法入睡，直到他们数清了每一个
single animal in their flock to make sure none were missing.
他们羊群中的单只动物，以确保没有遗漏。
But in modern psychological terms, the real reason it caught on in the English -speaking world comes
但在现代心理学术语中，它在英语世界风靡的真正原因来自于
down to something we call phonetic priming.
归结为我们称之为语音启动的东西。
Phonetic priming sounds like a technical term.
语音启动听起来像是一个专业术语。
Could you break that down into plain English for us?
你能为我们用通俗的英语把它拆解一下吗？
Of course.
当然。
Phonetic priming simply means that hearing or saying a certain sound quietly activates related words
语音启动简单来说，就是听到或说出某种声音会悄悄激活相关的单词
and concepts in your subconscious mind.
以及你潜意识中的概念。
In English, the word sheep and the word sleep share almost identical vowel sounds and mouth shapes.
在英语中，sheep 这个词和 sleep 这个词几乎共享相同的元音和口型。
Both have that soft, elongated, soothing double E sound.
两者都有那种柔和、拉长、舒缓的双E音。
When an English speaker repeats sheep, sheep, sheep, their brain receives a gentle subconscious
当一个英语使用者重复 sheep, sheep, sheep 时，他们的大脑会收到轻柔的潜意识
nudge towards sleep.
走向睡眠的轻推。
It is like an auditory anchor.
这就像是一个听觉锚点。
That makes total sense.
这完全说得通。
But when that habit was translated into other languages, like Chinese, that phonetic bridge
但当这个习惯被翻译成其他语言（比如中文）时，那个语音桥梁
disappeared entirely, right? Exactly.
消失得无影无踪了，对吧？确实如此。
In Chinese, the word for sheep is yang.
在中文中，羊的单词是 yang。
From a phonetic perspective, yang has an open vowel and a rising tone.
从语音角度来看，yang 有一个开口元音和一个升调。
When you say yang, your vocal cords engage, your facial muscles tighten slightly, and the sound has
当你发 yang 这个音时，你的声带参与，面部肌肉稍微收紧，声音带有
a crisp, bright ending.
一个清脆明亮的结尾。
More importantly, yang has zero acoustic connection to the Chinese word for sleep, which is shui zhao.
更重要的是，yang 与中文里表示睡眠的词（即 shui zhao）没有丝毫的声学联系。
So instead of a soothing whisper, you are repeating a sharp sound that actually wakes your brain up.
因此，你听到的不是舒缓的低语，而是在重复一个实际上会唤醒你大脑的尖锐声音。
No wonder so many people say the more sheep I count, the more wide awake I feel.
难怪很多人说我数越多的羊，感觉越清醒。
But here is my burning question.
但这是我最迫切的问题。
Even for native English speakers who have that sound connection, does counting sheep actually help
即使对于拥有这种声音联系的英语母语者来说，数绵羊真的有帮助吗
them sleep?
让他们入睡吗？
Or is that part of myth too?
或者这也是神话的一部分？
Science has a very clear answer to that, and the answer is no.
科学对此有一个非常明确的答案，答案是否定的。
Back in 2002, a team of researchers at Oxford University, led by Professor Allison Harvey, decided
早在 2002 年，牛津大学由艾莉森·哈维教授领导的一支研究人员团队决定
to test this scientifically.
为了对此进行科学地测试。
They gathered people suffering from chronic insomnia and divided them into three groups.
他们召集了患有慢性失眠的人，并将他们分成了三组。
One group was told to count sheep.
其中一组被告知去数羊。
Another group was asked to picture a relaxing scene, like a tranquil waterfall, a calm beach, or a
另一组被要求想象一个放松的场景，比如一个宁静的瀑布、平静的海滩，或者一个
summer meadow.
夏季的草地。
The third group was given no specific instructions at all.
第三组根本没有得到任何具体的指令。
And what did the Oxford researchers discover?
牛津大学的研究人员发现了什么？
The results surprised a lot of people.
结果让很多人感到惊讶。
The group picturing relaxing nature scenes fell asleep nearly 20 minutes faster than usual.
想象放松自然场景的那一组入睡速度比平时快了将近20分钟。
But the sheep counters, they actually took significantly longer to fall asleep than both the
但是数羊的人，他们入睡所花的时间实际上比两组人都要明显长得多
visualization group and the group that did nothing at all.
可视化组和什么都不做的那一组。
Wait, counting sheep was worse than doing nothing?
等等，数羊比什么都不做还要糟糕？
Why would a simple mental exercise backfire so badly?
为什么一个简单的心理练习会产生如此严重的事与愿违的效果？
Because counting is a structured cognitive task.
因为数数是一项结构化的认知任务。
Think about what happens when you count.
想想当你数数时会发生什么。
You are using your prefrontal cortex, which is the command center of your brain responsible for
你正在使用你的前额叶皮层，这是你大脑中负责……的指挥中心
logic, executive control, and working memory.
逻辑、执行控制和工作记忆。
You have to remember the numbers in sequential order.
你必须按顺序记住这些数字。
You count 51, 52, 53, and then your mind wanders for a second and you panic.
你数着51，52，53，然后你的思绪开小差了一秒钟，你就开始恐慌了。
Wait, was I in 54 or 64?
等等，我刚才是数到54还是64了？
That creates subtle performance anxiety and keeps your brain in an active problem -solving mode.
这会产生微妙的表现焦虑，并让你的大脑保持在积极的问题解决模式中。
That is so relatable.
这太有共鸣了。
You turn sleep into homework.
你把睡觉变成了家庭作业。
You are trying so hard to succeed at counting that you stress yourself out. Precisely.
你太努力想在数数这件事上成功了，以至于把自己搞得压力山大。正是如此。
Sleep is not something you can accomplish through willpower or effort.
睡眠不是你能通过意志力或努力去完成的事情。
Sleep is an act of letting go.
睡眠是一种放手的行为。
To fall asleep, your prefrontal cortex must power down, not stay awake keeping score.
要入睡，你的前额叶皮层必须关闭电源，而不是保持清醒来记分。
So what is actually happening in the brain when we naturally drift off?
那么当我们自然入睡时，大脑中到底发生了什么？
If our logical brain needs to turn off, what takes its place?
如果我们的逻辑大脑需要关闭，什么会取而代之呢？
When we transition from wakefulness to light sleep, our brain waves shift from active beta waves
当我们从清醒过渡到浅睡眠时，我们的脑电波从活跃的贝塔波
down to slower alpha and theta waves.
下降到更慢的阿尔法波和西塔波。
During this transitional phase, people experience something neuroscientists call hypnagogic mentation.
在这 个过渡阶段，人们会体验到神经科学家称之为入睡前的思维活动。
Hypnagogic mentation.
入睡前的思维。
That sounds like a dream before the dream.
听起来就像是梦境之前的梦。
That is a wonderful way to put it.
这真是一个极好的表达方式。
It refers to the random, fragmented, almost nonsensical thoughts and images that float through your
它指的是那些随机的、碎片化的、几乎毫无意义的想法和图像，它们飘过你的
head right before you lose consciousness.
就在你失去意识之前的脑海中。
You might randomly think of an orange bicycle, then a friend from middle school, then a floating cloud.
你可能会随机地想到一辆橙色的自行车，然后是初中的一个朋友，接着是一朵飘浮的云。
These thoughts do not follow any logical storyline.
这些想法不遵循任何逻辑故事情节。
They are chaotic and disjointed.
它们是混乱的且脱节的。
When your brain recognizes this safe, random chaos, it realizes there are no threats to analyze and
当你的大脑识别出这种安全、随机的混乱时，它意识到没有需要分析的威胁，也没有
no tasks to finish.
需要完成的任务。
It is safe to switch off.
可以安全地关机了。
That is fascinating.
这太迷人了。
So if orderly counting prevents this natural randomness, how can we intentionally trigger that
因此，如果井然有序的数数阻止了这种自然的随机性，我们如何才能有意地触发那种
relaxed state when our thoughts are racing?
当我们的思绪飞驰时，进入放松的状态？
That brings us to one of the most exciting tools developed in sleep science over the past decade,
这把我们带到了过去十年里睡眠科学中开发的最令人兴奋的工具之一，
the cognitive shuffle.
认知洗牌法。
It was created by a Canadian cognitive scientist named Dr.
它是由一位名叫……的加拿大认知科学家创造的
Luc Baudoin.
吕克·博杜安。
The entire goal of the cognitive shuffle is to deliberately simulate that random, dreamy state so
认知洗牌的整个目标就是去故意模拟那种随机的、做梦般的状态，从而
your brain tricks itself into falling asleep.
让你的大脑欺骗自己进入睡眠状态。
The cognitive shuffle sounds like a game.
这种认知洗牌听起来像个游戏。
How do our listeners actually try it at home tonight?
我们的听众今晚究竟如何在家里尝试呢？
It is very simple, and you do not need any technology.
非常简单，而且你不需要任何技术。
First, pick a neutral, emotionally calm seed word with four or five letters.
首先，挑选一个含有四个或五个字母的、中性的、情绪平静的种子词。
Let us take the word calm.
我们以单词平静为例。
You take the first letter, C, and you silently picture words that start with C.
你取第一个字母 C，然后默默地在脑海中想象以 C 开头的单词。
For example, cat, coffee cup, camera, carrot, cloud.
例如：猫、咖啡杯、相机、胡萝卜、云朵。
You spend a few seconds visualizing each object in your mind.
你在脑海中花几秒钟将每个物体可视化。
Once you run out of easy C words, you move to the second letter, A, apple, astronaut, anchor. Airplane.
一旦你用完了简单的 C 开头的词，你就转到第二个字母 A：苹果、宇航员、锚、飞机。
Then L, ladder, lemon, lighthouse.
然后是 L：梯子、柠檬、灯塔。
And finally, M, mountain, monkey, mirror.
最后是 M：山、猴子、镜子。
That sounds surprisingly fun and gentle.
听起来出奇地有趣且温和。
Why does visualizing those random items work better than counting numbers?
为什么想象那些随机的物品比数数字效果更好？
It works on two powerful psychological levels.
它在两个强大的心理层面起作用。
First, it occupies your phonological loop, which is the internal voice in your head that worries
首先，它占据了你的语音循环，也就是你脑海中那个会担心的内部声音
about tomorrow's deadlines, unpaid bills, or awkward conversations.
关于明天要交的最后期限、未付账单或尴尬的对话。
Because you are focusing on simple pictures, that anxious voice goes quiet.
因为你正专注于简单的图片，那个焦虑的声音就安静下来了。
Second, because a cat has nothing to do with a coffee cup and an astronaut has nothing to do with a
第二，因为猫和咖啡杯毫无关系，宇航员和……
lemon, your brain interprets these scattered, non -threatening micro -images as the beginning of a dream.
柠檬毫无关系，你的大脑会将这些零散的、无威胁的微型图像解读为梦境的开始。
Most people fall asleep before they even finish their second letter.
大多数人在甚至还没完成第二个字母之前就睡着了。
I love that.
我真喜欢这个。
It gives your busy mind just enough gentle work to prevent worry, but not enough structure to keep
它给忙碌的大脑提供刚好够温和的工作来阻止担忧，但没有足够的结构来保持
you alert.
你保持清醒。
What if someone does that, but still finds themselves tossing and turning after 20 or 30 minutes?
如果有人照做了，但在 20 或 30 分钟后仍然发现自己辗转反侧呢？
That is where good sleep hygiene and behavioral conditioning come in.
这就是良好的睡眠卫生和行为调节派上用场的时候了。
One cardinal rule of sleep medicine is the 20 -minute rule.
睡眠医学的一个基本原则就是 20 分钟原则。
If you have been in bed for 20 minutes and cannot sleep, get out of bed.
如果你在床上待了 20 分钟却无法入睡，那就起床。
Do not stay there tossing and turning because your brain will start associating your mattress with
不要躺在那里翻来覆去，因为你的大脑会开始把你的床垫与……
frustration and insomnia.
挫折感和失眠联系起来。
So leave the bedroom? Yes.
所以离开卧室？是的。
Move to a dimly lit room, sit on a comfortable chair, and do something quiet and low stimulation.
移步到光线昏暗的房间，坐在一把舒服的椅子上，做一些安静且低刺激的事情。
Read a physical paper book, listen to soft instrumental music, or do gentle breathing exercises.
读一本纸质书，听听柔和的器乐音乐，或者做做温和的呼吸练习。
Keep the lights warm and dim.
保持灯光温暖而昏暗。
Do not look at your phone, and above all, do not stare at the clock calculating how many hours of
不要看手机，最重要的是，不要盯着时钟计算还有多少小时的
sleep you have left.
你还剩下多少睡眠时间。
Checking the clock is definitely the ultimate trap.
看时钟绝对是终极陷阱。
Seeing 3 .15 a .m.
看到凌晨 3 点 15 分
instantly spikes your adrenaline.
会瞬间飙升你的肾上腺素。
Every single time.
每一次都是如此。
Clock watching triggers a threat response.
看时钟会触发威胁反应。
When your eyes feel heavy again, return to bed.
当你觉得眼睛又开始沉重时，回到床上。
Your bed should only be associated with two things, sleep and recovery.
你的床应该只与两件事相关，睡眠和恢复。
What an eye -opening conversation.
多么开眼界的对话啊。
To recap our key takeaways today, first, counting sheep became a habit in English largely due to
为了回顾我们今天的核心收获，首先，数羊在英语中成为一种习惯，很大程度上是因为
phonetic priming with the word sleep, but translates poorly into other languages like Chinese.
与 sleep 这个词的语音启动效应，但在翻译成中文等其他语言时效果很差。
Second, clinical research shows that counting numbers activates our brain's calculation centers,
第二，临床研究表明，数数字会激活我们大脑的计算中心，
which actually delays rest.
这实际上延迟了休息。
And finally, if you want a proven mental technique, try the cognitive shuffle by visualizing random,
最后，如果你想寻找一种经过验证的心理技巧，可以通过可 视化随机的事物来尝试认知洗牌，
pleasant objects to let your mind drift naturally into sleep.
让人感到愉悦的物件能使你的思维自然地飘入梦乡。
You summarized it perfectly, Chloe.
你总结得太完美了，克洛伊。
Sleep is not a battle to win.
睡眠不是一场需要赢得的战斗。
It is an environment of safety you create for your mind and body.
它是你为身心创造的安全环境。
Thank you so much, Dr.
非常感谢您，博士。
Lucas Miller, for sharing your scientific insights and practical tools with us today.
卢卡斯·米勒，感谢你今天与我们分享你的科学见解和实用工具。
It has been an absolute pleasure.
这真是一次无比愉快的经历。
Thank you for having me, Chloe.
谢谢你邀请我，克洛伊。
Wishing peaceful nights and sweet dreams to all our listeners.
祝愿 我们所有的听众都有一个平静的夜晚和甜蜜的梦。
Now, before we wrap up today's show, we have an engaging question for you, our listeners.
现在，在结束今天的节目之前，我们为广大听众准备了一个引人入胜的问题。
What is your personal go -to mental trick or nighttime routine when you find yourself struggling to
当你发现自己苦于无法
fall asleep?
入睡时，你个人常用的心理小技巧或夜间习惯是什么？
Have you ever tried the cognitive shuffle, or do you have your own unique visualization method?
你尝试过认知洗牌法吗，或者你有自己独特的视觉化方法吗？
Be sure to write down your answer in the comment section below, or check out what other listeners
请务必在下方的评论区写下你的答案，或者看看其他听众
have shared to discover new tips.
分享的内容以 发现新的小窍门。
If you enjoyed this episode, please consider subscribing to Talkcast, sharing this podcast with a
如果你喜欢这一集，请考虑订阅 Talkcast，并将这个播客分享给
friend who needs better sleep, and joining our Talkcast membership for exclusive bonus content.
需要更好睡眠的朋友，并加入我们的 Talkcast 会员以获取独家额外内容。
Your support and feedback mean the world to us.
你们的支持和反馈对我们意义重大。
Until next time, take care, sleep well, and keep learning with Talkcast.
下次见，保重，睡个好觉，并继续与 Talkcast 一起学习。
